[hist-analytic] Bootstrap

steve bayne baynesrb at yahoo.com
Sat Jan 31 16:39:37 EST 2009

I am so far behind, I hope you don't confuse the brevity
of my reply etc. as impertinence. I address your points in

1. Compare James on how a child learns to move its hands
with Skinner. The connection is, in my opinion, amazing.
Ideo-motor behavior requires memory of ideas acquired from
what is, essentially, Skinner's operant behavior. I stopped
reading about babies after a few hours with Alexander Shand.
Something about the arm wavings of babies...I left.

2. Bellini may not have written for the voice, but it seems
to me that most "classical" is written with the voice only
slightly in the background. I can think with any kind of 
music on except where there is a voice. The voice is THE
musical instrument in some way.

3. Yeah, I meant 'trick' in a bad way. Anscombe does the
same thing and she, along with Kenny are full of tricks.
I used to play chess with a brilliant Czech player, whom
I NEVER beat. He would ask after my move "No trrricks??"
He say every one of them.

4. As for the topic of teeth and hair: both escape me!

By the way, it may interest you to know that I once
had a ms on Grice; ran about two hundred pages, working
through every detail I could as Grice refined his
meaning of 'meaning'. I had no security software. Someone
got in. Stole it and locked me out of my computer. Since
then I have become more aware of security, such being my
many Internet fiends.

Best wishes


--- On Sat, 1/31/09, Jlsperanza at aol.com <Jlsperanza at aol.com> wrote:
From: Jlsperanza at aol.com <Jlsperanza at aol.com>
Subject: Bootstrap
To: hist-analytic at simplelists.co.uk
Date: Saturday, January 31, 2009, 3:53 PM

In a message dated 1/31/2009 1:01:49 P.M.  Eastern Standard Time, 
baynesrb at yahoo.com writes:
When I tie my shoelaces,  there is on the one  hand the movement of my 
fingers, and on the other, the  movement of the laces. But is it possible to 
separate these events by calling  the first, alone, my action? What makes the 
separation a problem 
--- This  reminded me of Grice's _Bootstrap_, although it's the other
end of 
the problem,  I guess.

I would distinguish:

-- move my finger
-- move the  lace

Personally, I would find it otiose to move my finger without moving  the lace 
-- but:

1. Since it's quite a task, one can imagine a child  learning to tie his
by moving his finger (without actually moving the  lace)
2. Similarly, some singers somplained that Bellini did not write 
'songs' for 
the 'human' voice. I take it that the score shows some 'movement of
that when meant to accompany the voice is _unnatural_.
3.  Philosophers should be well concerned, as Davidson taught us, that 
co-relations  between 'actions' are a trick -- and I'm not sure S.
Baynes means 
'trick' in a  bad way in the header

4. I once read that Prince Charles never had  (literally) to brush his teeth. 
He would have a butler doing that for him, i.e.  put the paste on the brush, 
and all Charles had to do is moving the head. But we  do distinguish, "Who
your hair?" from "I don't like the way you cut your  hair"
('It wasn't me, it 
was the coiffeur; I've just had the (i.e. my) hair  done.

Sorry for changing the header -- feel free to  ignore!

Grice's _bootstrap_ is meant to illustrate the problems perhaps  pointed
by D. Frederick: a neurologist's description of the physical even 
my moving the fingers may be -- at what Grice calls Level L1 -- in 
"Method in 
philosophical psychology" -- _irrelevant_ when it comes to my 
why I moved them (Level 2). There's no sense of introducing a Level  1 that

will not allow us, later to pull ourselves, yes, by our own  bootstraps?



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