[hist-analytic] Deliberation and Grammar

Baynesr at comcast.net Baynesr at comcast.net
Fri Jul 10 20:21:20 EDT 2009

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jlsperanza at aol.com 
To: hist-analytic at simplelists.co.uk 
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 4:31:03 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
Subject: Re: Deliberation and Grammar 

I can still utter that meaning to say 
"karulise elatically pirots karulise elatically" 

You can utter sounds some of which resemble morphemes, but you can't 
*say* anything. Even the finest mind has nothing to say in uttering 
'karulise elatically pirots karlize elatically'. So the quoted sentence above is false. 



In a message dated 7/10/2009 aune at philos.umass.edu writes: "Steve says, "I 
cannot utter ‘x’ with the intention of saying ‘y’ unless ‘y’ is a 
sentence and..." But surely I can utter "Bonjour" with the intention of saying 
"Hello" even though "Bonjour" is not a sentence. Am I missing something?". 

I'll get back to Steve (in a friendly way!) at a later stage; and Steve: 
don't feel my response or comment on B. Aune should direct your reply! 
I would generalise indeed B. Aune's point to the totally meaningless. 
(Grice, "Pirots karulise elatically" -- Cfr. ii. "Elatically pirots karulise 
karulise pirots pirots karulise" 
Suppose that ii _is_ meaningless. I can still utter that meaning to say 
"karulise elatically pirots karulise elatically" (another string of nonsense). 
I have discussed elsewhere this with S. R. Bayne and I recall my quote 
of Lombard/Stine, "Grice's Intentions". Philosophical Studies -- which we 
discussed at length. So, I would think that there is a way to narrow Bayne's 
point to 'that'-clauses, as follows: 
I wouldn't be able, by uttering 'x' -- by uttering which I would mean 
that my addressee is the cream in my coffee' -- with the intention of 
saying (or implicating) that my addressee is my pride and joy -- unless I mean 
something (in the sense of 'mean-that') with 'x' in the first place? JLS 
(I'm trying to give a synopsis here restricted to one 'screen'!) 

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