# [hist-analytic] Uncertainty and Indeterminacy

Baynesr at comcast.net Baynesr at comcast.net
Sat Jan 22 14:47:58 EST 2011

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Imagine three points connected by arrows going in one direction so that by following the arrow from any node you can reach any other node. Now add a node connected to only one node with an arrow pointing to that single node. There is no way of reaching that added node by following the arrows, once you enter from that added node. In this case, the system is "uncertain." 'Indeterminate' by contrast refers to a node with two (or more) arrows going in different directions.

Regards

STeve

----- Original Message -----
From: "Landspeedrecord" <landspeedrecord at gmail.com>
To: Baynesr at comcast.net
Cc: "hist-analytic" <hist-analytic at simplelists.co.uk>
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 10:58:58 PM
Subject: Re: Uncertainty and Indeterminacy

can you clarify this:
"In the case of uncertainty we may know "which way the arrows go" but we don't know where they began: still, there are no causally "branching" event nodes.  "?

And also which clauses in that proposition are negated to get the relevant "partner" definition of "indeterminate"?

On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 4:54 PM, < Baynesr at comcast.net > wrote:

Consider a physical system that loses information. Suppose we say this creates uncertainty; such as as to where we began. I claim that this is not to say such a system is indeterministic. But this depends on what you take to be indeterministic and what you take to be uncertain. Suppose that we think of an indeterministic system as differing from a system possessing uncertainty in the following respect: In the case of uncertainty we may know "which way the arrows go" but we don't know where they began: still, there are no causally "branching" event nodes.

But now suppose we join two systems possessing such uncertainties with an event that "begins" two such uncertain systems. Such an event will in this case be binary branching; that is, we've added a new "quantity." namely an indeterministic state. So my claim is that two uncertain systems, in the sense described, can be joined but only by creating an indeterministic system. Thus, indeterminacy - in my sense and in this instance - results from joining two systems possessing uncertainty (uncertainty, perhaps, being described as a system where information is lost). An indeterministic system is one where the information is just not there. Not sure of all this, though. I need to take a look at some more physics before applying it to problems in phil. of mind.

Steve Bayne
45000

--
Pentabarf #5: A Discordian is Prohibited from Believing What he reads.
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